Fcc Paragon- Its ok to take immigrant tenants because they will pay the fine | Discuss
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1:15 pm
20/05/2011
Offline
QuoteToday I have been forwarded a promo email from Fcc Paragon advertising that they now include Right to Rent Checks within their referencing services.
However it does not explain on this mailer or their website how they are going to validate the applicant tenants Right to Rent, only that they will indemnify the landlord from any penalties incurred from the Home Office subject to their terms and conditions, which also I can find no trace of what these terms and conditions actually are.
Oxford Dictionary defines Indemnify as to ‘Compensate (someone) for harm or loss’
So in essence what paragon are saying that is if the landlord does in fact take an immigrant tenant after being referenced though their services that they will pay out.
Does that also mean they will take the 5 year prison sentence?
Or the sanctions under the Proceeds of Crime Act?
Or have they spotted a loop-hole within the legislation in which they can jump through in order to claim they can include Right to Rent Checks within their referencing?
Am I missing something or isn’t the point not to take them in the first place? – Not just pay out when you do…
Is this the old; if we get caught by mum I will take the blame….
But they cannot take the blame, it must be remembered that the civil penalty conviction lays with the landlord or letting agent.
What does this mean for the landlords that live within in the areas that run the selective licensing scheme?
As if you get caught then you are then blacklisted and lose this licence?
So if you are caught you will not have to pay the £3000 fine, however you will have to sell off your property portfolio as you will you will no longer be able to practice as a landlord.
Will Fcc Paragon indemnify you for your whole property portfolio?
As you are probably already aware we have been protecting you since the Right to Rent Legislation started its trial in the Midlands.
2:12 pm
29/08/2013
OfflineI got a mate who has just been to a selective licensing meeting and they said that he needed to be checked as a proper and fit person. When he asked would he be a proper and fit person if he had taken an illegal immigrant and not done the proper checks they said if you had received a civil penalty then NO!. Which means he could not act as a landlord within a licensed area.
The other interesting factor is that landlords using a letting agent that uses the fingers crossed method need to get a agreement with their agent in writing to confirm who is responsible for fulfilling the requirements of the Scheme and so liable to a penalty. Be careful that your letting agent does not put the onus on you to do the checks.
2:18 pm
20/05/2011
Offline
London,
Initial right to rent checks
Right rent checks on prospective tenants may only be undertaken and recorded up to 28 days before the tenancy agreement comes into effect. There are 4 basic steps to conducting an initial right to rent check:
- Establish the adults who will live in the property as their only or main home;
- Obtain original versions of one or more of the acceptable documents for adult occupiers;
- Check the documents in the presence of the holder of the documents6, and
- Make copies of the documents and retain them with a record of the date on which the check is made.
We do all this for you in our £40 serviced referencing which you get free with 1 years rent guarantee insurance. (See this package on the front page of the site) or JOIN NOW
4:13 pm
Thanks for the interest in our 'Right to Rent' checks. It is a brilliant service with a wealth of experience and robust referencing behind it. http://bit.ly/1NMKBxd
We know you have vested interest in your own referencing services but note you do not offer this.
5:05 pm
08/06/2015
OfflineHi there,
Thank-you for joining us on our forum.
We are not undermining your referencing however you have not expanded on what your indemnity covers, is it just the fine?
Or is it the prison sentence as well?
You have also not clarified how exactly you check the original documents and the 'Right to Rent'
4:26 am
Now lets see who to use!!???
Paragon or LRS!!!!???
Hmmm!! don't think this is going to be too hard to make a decision
One company trots out ridiculous statements as to how it will indemnify LL and effectively have to go to prison for them and one company doesn't but just offers sensible and effective referencing
Now I wonder which is the one without the virtue!!!??
5:49 pm
Dear Chloe
We really appreciate your interest in our service regarding the Right to Rent but think you are trying to sensationalise the process, are you aware of the legislation and what you would have to do to end up receiving a prison sentence under this law?
As a direct competitor we do not feel it is appropriate for us to outline what these checks are to yourselves, but the whole point of the service is that we mitigate the risk of a penalty from the Home Office by complying with the legislation. The recommendations we make will be placed following very robust checks.
Does your referencing service go far enough that you would be confident to indemnify a Landlord against a penalty?
10:24 am
Had a terrible experience with FCC Paragon - complete rip off. Absolute scam.
They should be taken to court.
Failed the tenanancy check for no reason, it cost £190.
This is a blatant scam owned by a large company that is simply gathering data from people.
10:35 am
20/05/2011
Offline
Good morning FCC,
We weren't withholding your posts, we have had an influx of new customers and as you can appreciate, customers first.
This topic was started in response to FCC Paragons comments on the advert which the sample is included above where FCC paragon claim 'we do not just use algorithms to check' .
We felt it important for people to understand the importance of verifying ID as you are promoting too. Understanding the importance we partnered before the trials even started with a specialist in providing a service tailored to do this - Jumio NetVerfiy.
This service has now been adopted by EasyJet as well to verify passports as people book in to their flights, it is an industry leading service which we can now offer to our members for them to do themselves or for us to include within our referencing for them.
These algorithms on top of our staff checks allow us to provide a thorough check that visual checks alone can't match.
We do understand that prison sentences are not the first response to an offense, however with more councils introducing Landlord Licensing there is talk that if a landlord is convicted of Right to Rent Act they will loose their landlord license, if this is the case will FCC paragon help cover the loses linked to having to sell their whole portfolio?
In summary we believe that algorithms as used by the industry are a better way than crossing our fingers and telling our clients we will pay their fine in the event they get caught.
12:13 pm
We do not fail tenants without cause and reason. The fee you were charged did not come back to us (FCC Paragon) directly, if you're unhappy about the fee you paid we would advise going back to your letting agent to discuss this further.
12:22 pm
Good afternoon Tenant Referencing,
In response to your comments, our referencing includes algorithm checks however we do not think checking the algorithms alone provides a strong enough result, as this just confirms that the passport number exists, not who it belongs to.
We will not enter into further correspondence in regards to this as we believe our service will speak for itself.
Thank you for your continued interest.
2:00 pm
20/05/2011
Offline
Thank you for taking part on the forum.
I hope you understand that Jumio offers much more than just a number verification which is why we partnered with them, along with other checks we do feel this makes us a leader in what we do.
We understand why other providers don't integrate it as it is quite a development cost but we felt this protected our users like no other provider. This with our Rent Guarantee Products, service providers and deposit protection discounts allows us to offer a one stop portal for landlords and agents alike.
Until we speak again...
5:50 pm
20/05/2011
Offline
I had a conversation today with a guy who use to be a director of a national tenant referencing company. He said they did thousands of tenant references every month for letting agents and they did not give a toss whether the tenant was able to pay the rent as long as they could show that the RGI insurance could be taken based on the under writers minimum referencing requirement.
He went on to say that they did not even care if the insurance could be claimed against and nor did the letting agent as they just passed it on to the insurers who then turned down the claim. The problem is that these big companies don’t care about giving you a shite tenant they just want to sell you a RGI policy as that is where the money is. Here at tenant referencing we do totally the opposite we don’t want you to take someone else’s past problem and do everything to stop that and only then can you take out the insurance against them turning into a problem in the future.
The difference is that our RGI policies have so far always paid up because we have documented evidence in every reference we archive with our clients that the tenant was good, able to pay and always paid in the past before we let them anywhere near our landlords and agents properties.
The simple choice is would you take a reference from a company that simply did not do all the referencing to a five star standard and offer you every tool to do it? If your answer is NO! then join us now because we do not do anything but the best referencing in the market bar none.
9:50 am
In areas where Councils use their powers under The Housing Act 2004 to introduce 'discretionary licensing', on application the landlord has to declare themselves a 'fit and proper person' and pay a fee for the privilege to trade there.
A conviction of any civil law related to Housing Law (as well as some specific criminal convictions) renders a landlord ineligible for a licence - and that's anyone who sets up tenancy agreements, authorises repairs etc. See Bristol City Council's application form:
The licence criteria doesn't let you hide behind anyone else i.e. allow you to be indemnified by anyone acting on your behalf.... so FCC Paragon's indemnity will not help you if you rent property in an area that becomes subject to discretionary licensing. That's potentially any city, anywhere UK.
If you continued to rent a property that needed a licence you didn't get, or applied thinking that you were indemnified by using a third party to relieve you of some Housing Act 2004 responsibility, the penalties are severe if you get caught.
- IT IS A CRIMINAL OFFENCE TO OPERATE WITHOUT A LICENCE
- FINES THAT WERE £20k ARE NOW UNLIMITED
- THE COUNCIL COULD TAKE OVER RUNNING THE PROPERTY
- IF FOUND GUILTY... A RENT REPAYMENT ORDER COULD BE IMPOSED, meaning that tenants and former tenants could reclaim up to twelve months rent where a landlord has rented accommodation which should be licenced.
Ref: Bristol City Council Private Housing Service Doc - Sep 2015, p.10
My overall conclusion is that FCC Paragon cannot help with the full range of landlord liabilities so it's best not to rely on it. None of its claims have been tested.
Landlord001 BA (Hons) Social Policy and Criminology
11:54 am
Couldn't agree more with the other advocates for the LRS services
It is obvious that Paragon have not carried full DD on their product offering
Had they they would not be offering a stupid indemnity policy which would indemnify nothing!!!
As indicated above a LL could lose everything because of trust in a fatally flawed Paragon policy
Paragon are the ones that don't give a toss
LRS do NOT operate with that mindset
Which is why LRS are heads and shoulders above other referencing companies
They have a far more holistic approach to referencing and are not just looking to make a buck!!
But if course Paragon haven't built up an extensive network of LL and LA over the years which is a substantial foundation of the service that LRS offers
That is why all other referencing operations are nothing compared to LRS
The fact that LRS in addition now offers an overwhelmingly superior set of products compared to other supposed referencing organisations makes the LRS the description for all a LL requirements
Only stupid LL will believe the Paragon policy
No sensible LL would ever overtaken in by such a ridiculous concept which really proves Paragon don't understand the realities of the PRS
I for one would never use them
The offer from LRS is so effective I advise other LL of my acquaintance to use LRS
11:13 pm
The catch is that a landlord, checking their tenant's Right to Rent - is supposed to hold actual tenant's documents in hands. Documents must be visually validated at least at basic level to ensure they are not an obvious fake. How this can be done remotely?!
9:44 am
20/05/2011
Offline
Hi Right to Rent App,
Jumio systems are built for this sole purpose, instead of leaving the decision in the hands of an inexperienced landlord who does not know where the holograms are placed and just assumes that the passport is okay; why not leave it to the experienced.
All of our checks are then archived in our transparent referencing portal where we then suggest the landlord does a final check that the photo is the correct person they are referencing.
Jumio is now partnered with the likes of EasyJet - one of the UK’s largest and one of Europe’s leading airlines. A partnership that would not be in place if Jumio's services were questionable.
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