Selective Licensing - Councils try and stick another plaster over the anti-social behaviour wound. | Discuss

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Selective Licensing - Councils try and stick another plaster over the anti-social behaviour wound.
10/01/2014
10:17 am
Paul Routledge
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This is a follow on post for a subject that has been going on regarding selective licensing designed to cut anti-social behaviour in the town centre of Weston-super-Mare, from 2nd January 2014 all properties which are rented out and shared by unrelated persons (or have been converted into flats) will need to license with the Council. As with the existing mandatory HMO licensing scheme, failure to license with this new scheme is a criminal offence and carries a fine of up to £20,000. – See more at:

WSM licensing scheme set to increase costs for good landlords and good tenants

 

And this is really what is happening – Isn’t it?

 

The most disgusting thing about all of this is that 3 years ago I went and saw John Penrose our local MP and told him about http://www.landlordreferencing.co.uk.  I also told him that since we had started the site, the word was getting around about LRS and because of that, the problems I had experienced in my buildings went down by over 80%. I have actually forgotten how to use the replay on my CCTV cameras and today I see no anti-social behaviour whatsoever. I also told him that if he went back over the years, he would see that the key to success was using LRS to bring together landlords, police and housing officers who could all work together and would soon bring anti-social behaviour to a close because if we did not let them into our properties, then they could not get a foothold into our communities in the first place. He was very impressed and said he would follow us and inform the Council about us and today, 3 years later, North Somerset Council have done nothing about working with us to stop anti-social tenants being passed around by the same landlords, the same landlords who they now want to try and charge £1000 a year per property!!

When LRS first started, I informed the heads of North Somerset Council and the police about LRS .  Over the years, I have had 3 separate police forces visit our properties at the request of our local police because they love what we have achieved in reducing town centre problems by making tenants understand that LRS will stop them getting a home if they do not fall in line. Yet today, after 4 years and a proven track record, despite LRS being a free way to stop anti-social behaviour by stopping problem tenants, not one police force has promoted us to landlords and not one council has dared to formally work with us to stop bad tenants.

I have asked if they will drop leaflets into those landlords who have been subjected to problems to bring awareness and the answer was “we will get back to you” they never did, I have asked the council if they will inform all the landlords in the area about us to help stop bad tenants moving around and the answer was “No” in fact not one public service has worked to get the word out about LRS in the past 4 years,  on the contrary,  they have done as much as they can to hush it over and that is disgraceful. Is this the actions of our public bodies really trying to get to grips with our problem communities or is this the action of bureaucrats doing just what they need to do too get in more cash to support their ever increasing ill thought out untried policies.

Truthfully, I could go on for hours and even after we were on BBC after the BIG Liverpool drug dealing gang got caught in Weston, we were promised that they would cover the story about LRS helping communities but they too never bothered.  Is it all too controversial? They all want to do something about the problem, but not one of them have the cojones to be controversial enough to stick their head above the parapet at fear of being politically incorrect or losing the vote.

So, 4 years down the road and with a proven track record of working to stop anti-social behaviour, not one council has officially registered to work with LRS, not one police force has officially acknowledged us and realised that the way to stop town centre problems is to stop these tenants getting a foothold into our communities in the first place – after all, “ If you want to stop trouble in your pub you ban the troublemakers” and “if you want to stop stealing from your shop you ban the thieves” and “if you want to stop troublesome tenants in your community you refuse them access by stopping them putting down roots and join LRS”.. It is as easy as that.

The key to curing the anti-social behaviour in our towns and cities is to unite landlords, letting agents, councils and police as gatekeepers to our communities.  This can be done through LRS who can send out a message that if you do not behave you will be homeless. The way forward is not to try and raise more money from struggling good landlords who already pay over the odds to try and bring the bad ones in line.

I personally have no intention of paying twice, once for starting up LRS (which has been 100% successful) and then again a second time unwillingly to the council on their whimsical folly to try and reinvent the wheel using my money. If local authorities want to they can stop anti-social behaviour within months simply by working with local landlords through LRS and educating those landlords showing them that to work together by joining LRS will stop all problems in its tracks and not by trying to charge us another £10,000 each in some cases to pay for them to do their job again.

The truth is Local authorities do not want to stop anti-social behaviour by stopping people getting into our communities, they want us to take them and then charge us to control them from within, otherwise they themselves will end up with a homeless problem at the councils’ door. They cannot use LRS because it works at exposing problem people and excluding them and therefore they cannot be hidden within PRS landlords properties (sweeping the dirt under the rug scenario) and if they have nowhere to go then the councils know they are the ones that will end up with a bigger homeless problem right on their own door step.

By the introduction of this additional licencing scheme payment, North Somerset and every other council has sent out a clear message, “we don’t not want to use a proven free service like LRS to network together to clean up our towns and cities we want to do it our way which has failed in the past and for that privilege we are going to charge all the good landlords thousands of pounds for trying to do so”.

This introduction of another tax for good landlords is in utter disregard to fairness and although I do not need another drawn out Golgotha I must challenge the legality of this stealth tax with North Somerset and my MP Liam Fox again in the next few days as I have no intention in allowing them to stick another plaster over the wound at my expense especially when after 4 years and over £350,000 of my own money, I have developed a vaccine that they will not use called LRS that will cure the problem forever.  

 

Join LRS today free

 

Paul Routledge CEO
Tenant Referencing UK.Com
10/01/2014
12:24 pm
trudy
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What a brilliant post Paul.

Following on from this I have just had (another) positive match to a new application today to the LRS database, with a previous rent default of £2,700. And after speaking to their previous landlord their behaviour sounds like it's on a par with this other recent forum post ! Surprised!

I printed the Lifestyle report off and showed them and they just shrugged and said they must have forgotten...!

More proof that LRS can and does stop rent loss and anti-social behaviour in all of our communities.

Thanks again LRS.Kiss

10/01/2014
1:15 pm
rybeconline
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I have also saved a LL from taking a wrongun recently using the LRS database.

Just last week a seemingly genuine family came in to the office excited over the fact a LL wanted to house them, and were therefore sent to us for referencing.  This family presented themselves well and made out that they were god's gift to LL's and emphasized they had never missed any bill payment. Maybe they thought I wouldn't bother referencing them if they made enough effort in the office, however this was not the case. This couple did indeed have a good credit history and did show as having good affordability for the property.  However as I carried out lifestyle and previous LL references I found that this family were well known for drunken shenanigans and causing disturbance to their neighbours, if that wasn't enough they had also caused £2k worth of damage at their previous address!!  Fair to say this family are still looking for a property and in all probability will find a LL who is unfamiliar with LRS and do the same thing all over again.

 

Kayleigh Tewkesbury

Rybec Homes online partners with landlordreferencing.co.uk

Advertise your 'LET' until 'LET' on Rightmove and Zoopla for £25+vat

10/01/2014
1:27 pm
Heritage Estate Agents
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An excellent post, and a subject I know you and I have chewed over a bit.  I am also going to throw in that I was speaking to the Local Authority in question regarding the fact that they were sending all these really unsuitable tenants our way, and it was peeing us off a bit, particularly when certain staff members conduct Land Registry checks and make contact with our landlords and offer their services FOC so poor ickle DSS tenant dont have to pay to use our services  - that is another story, but the upshot of this story as follows:

I had a long conversation with a fairly high up manager in the relevant department, expressing my disgust over the above action, which was actually tantamount to procurement and not something a local authority should be getting into.  She didnt agree but hey ho we then went on to tenant selection and had a long chat about this.  During this conversation the local authority told me categorically they must take every tenant's words on board and treat it accordingly, so if they lie to the Local Authority, they have to take it as gospel truth.  It was agreed that better communication between local authority and tenant was the way forward, but thats not my problem to deal with.

We then went on to tenant selection and I mentioned LRS.  This lady mentioned your name Paul and I suggested that maybe you two should talk, as this would stop a lot of the problems dead in their tracks.  She gave me the impression that they were a bit above that, plus they had a legal duty to re-house the homeless.  I got the feeling I was flogging a dead horse regarding this and decided to give her another hammering over the above story, which was actually quite satisfying as by this time I sensed her to be a bit fed up with me.  To be fair, we didnt get anywhere, apart from the fact I have withdrawn Heritage Estate Agents from their list of preferred letting agents to be used, and have told her to us stick it back on that list over my dead body.

As you know, we are always keen to spread the word, which I do with other letting agents and landlords regularly.  I am afraid though that it will take something fairly big to change this though, but am more than happy to lend my support in any way possible.

Cathy

http://www.heritage4homes.co.uk

 

PS  I am not normally that confrontational, but I had just had a very terse conversation with the landlord in question, who was furious with the local authority. 

 

10/01/2014
1:59 pm
Sharon Crossland AIR
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This is a service that obviously works and I know that you don't care where these tenants go because you have gotten rid of them. Fair enough but there are enough landlords out there who neither know or care about your service and who don't care who they house as long as they get the money.

Any ideas on how to deal with them as surely your service only accounts for a small percentage of landlords in operation?

10/01/2014
7:58 pm
PaulBarrett
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Heartfelt sentiments from  Paul and am in total agreement with his take on the situation.

I reckon that brick wall Paul has been using to bang his head against must have collapsed by now!; so much used has it been!!!!

It just confirms all we have known.

Councils try to mug off PRS LL with their dross as otherwise they have to pay substantially more in TA than they would in HB.

It is obvious they are NOT the slightest bit interested in the wellbeing of the LL once they have managed to pass off the tenant to the LL.

There is one thing that would stop the councils behaving in this way.

You know what it is..........................................immediate eviction in cases of rent arrears.

Only this will frighten councils as all that would happen would be the return of those wrongun tenants once evicted to he council housing dept.

Supposedly the council has NO obligation to house anyone who has been evicted because of failure to pay rent.

And yet councils continue to attempt to house these wrongun evicted tenants and to fob them off to new mug LL.

These councils are scum and deserve to be ignored by PRS LL.

Which right thinking PRS LL would wish to assist these low life councils!?

They have to fob their wrongun tenants onto someone.

LL who accept this council dross and then find themselves stitched up by the wrongun tenant have only themselves to blame.

Any tenant suggested by a council is by default probably a wrongun.

 

 

 

11/01/2014
1:06 am
zipster31
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What a good post Paul - would make a great read in a national newspaper. Doesn't give one much faith in public services does it? They are a cowardly disgrace - the local government, councils and the Police. And I still just don't get why anyone would take tenants from councils when they are so untrustworthy and deceitful. Such landlords deserve everything they get - a sure way to ruin. Glad to see Heritage pulled the plug - the less support the council's have from the PRS the better, and the more inclined they may be to co-operate honestly with landlords. As I see it, on the back of all this, LRS goes from strength to strength! I can see all good landlords signing up and avoiding the bad tenants, and all the c**p ones can wallow hand in hand with the councils in their pit of wrongun tenants.  Suits me just fine!

11/01/2014
9:57 am
Paul Routledge
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Thanks Zip,

They will never publish it or give us air time for exactly the reasons I have put in the article.Unfortunately politicians and the media will never support or publicise anything which goes against the majority of public opinion unless they can make mayhem with it and even if it is blatantly right and good for the communities.

This country abolished hanging years ago by a closed political vote and not the will of the people, if you asked the average person in the street if they think that the like of Ian huntley and all the other ever increasing paedophiles amongst us that murder our children in the name of sexual gratification should swing, guess what?  You will probably hear a resounding cry of “YES”

 

I do not take bad tenants to court so Join LRS today free and don’t take my bad tenants anymore.

 

Paul Routledge CEO
Tenant Referencing UK.Com
11/01/2014
4:33 pm
Mary Latham
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Paul, Your problem is that your motive is to stop anti social tenants misbehaving.  The motive of local authorities who introduce Additional Licensing, which this this because it only applies to HMOs and Selective licensing which applies to all rented properties, is not to improve the behavior of tenants nor to improve property standards it is to RAISE FUNDS.   When I published my book last May I warned about this and since then I have seen these schemes popping up all over the country.  I listened to a speaker from Newham Council, who have introduced selective licensing for the whole of their area.  He did not once mention any improvement in ASB or property standards, his whole talk was about the amount of revenue that this has produced and how many extra Officers this is paying.  If Government had intended licensing to be for all landlords they could easily have introduced that in the Housing Act 2004 - they did not.  Instead they provided extra powers to deal with specific issues like ASB and it is time that they clamped down on local authorities who are ignoring the law of this land and the decision made by Government and misusing their powers.

 

Paul the day of LRS is yet to come but it will come when these local authorities have to show the results of extra licensing and how it has solved the ASB problems and as well all know licensing landlords will never achieve that because bad tenants are the problem not bad landlords.

 

Mary Latham – follow me on Twitter @landlordtweets

Also see  for the perfect present for landlords for under a fiver

 

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11/01/2014
5:08 pm
Paul Routledge
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Mary,

You have opened my eyes even further with your remarks as your claims are evidenced by a conversation you have witnessed when mine is guess work on based on what they have not done so far.

I agree with you I believe that this is a clear case of abuse of power and maybe even mal-administration. We need to talk further because I think it is time to address this problem together and get some answers.

I intend to get them to tell me their proposals before I pay a penny and I want to know why they will not use LRS before they throw their extorted money from good landlords to employing another bunch of tossers who will never even make a dent in the problem.

 

I do not take bad tenants to court so Join LRS today free and don’t take my bad tenants anymore.

 

Paul Routledge CEO
Tenant Referencing UK.Com
11/01/2014
5:21 pm
Mary Latham
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Paul 2014 will be the year of landlord licensing.  When the guy from Newham sat down we went into group discussions - this was a  VERY high level meeting.  During the discussion he said "Collecting the licence fees is a pain the the neck but the amount of revenue that we raise is worth the effort" I asked what they hoped to achieve from this mass licensing and he replied "Landlords are only interested in making money and it's up to us to take some of that off them".  He did not realise that he was speaking to one of only two landlords in the room and imagined that I was a local authority employee intending to introduce licensing.  You don't want to know what I said next but I wish I had photographed his face and the big grin on the fact of one of my local authority officers who knows me well and watched this plonker walk into it.

You are right Paul. No one would walk into Marks and Spencers and ask them for thousands of pounds for each store without being able to justify it and landlords are in business too - we should not pay until we are told/  

The Aims

The dates of reviews of how far the aims are being achieved

How the cost of the licence has been calculated - the legislation ONLY allows the cost of the scheme to be covered and there have been three recent judgements which have resulted in Richard Lambert, CEO of the National Landlords Association, writing to local authorities and asking when they intend to refund monies that should not have been charged.  The letter is here http://www.landlords.org.uk/node/8726

 

 

Mary Latham – follow me on Twitter @landlordtweets

Also see  for the perfect present for landlords for under a fiver

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11/01/2014
5:40 pm
Paul Routledge
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Mary,

Reminds me of when I applied to the local authority to convert a 100 year old church which was in ruin and no one else would touch it because of the cost of renovation into 13 flats.

I explained that the budget was tight and it would cost around 2.5 million and that it would take over 10 years to recoup my investment and that any help by them to do the conversion to regenerate this area would be very welcomed. Well there help came in the form of a 106 agreement at which they told me I had to pay £97,000 to them for the planning.

If they try and push this through in North Somerset they will just stir up a hornets nest of really angry landlords that will just evict the tenants one by one and I shall be one of them, I have no intention of funding benefit tenants anymore and they can now have them on their doorstep and house them in very expensive B&B’s for all I care.

 

I do not take bad tenants to court so Join LRS today free and don’t take my bad tenants anymore.

 

Paul Routledge CEO
Tenant Referencing UK.Com
11/01/2014
5:47 pm
Mary Latham
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Paul Don't be mean they want their cake and their h'penny.  If you are not going to give them their h'penny as a lady once said "Let them eat cake"  and choke on it!!!!

 

Mary Latham – follow me on Twitter @landlordtweets

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11/01/2014
5:50 pm
@YMediationS
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The key to curing the anti-social behaviour in our towns and cities is to unite landlords : http://ow.ly/ss46U #UKhousing

 

Perhaps! However, some key communication skills may go long way 2ward improving T/LL RELATIONS wen difficulties arise. Contact us

 

via twitter

11/01/2014
6:09 pm
Mary Latham
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Anti social behavior among tenants has little if anything to do with landlords.  This is exactly the attitude which empowers local authorities to think that charge licence fees to landlords will stop the bad behavior of tenants - I would like to see the evidence that this is true anywhere in the UK since the HA 2004 introduced licensing - in fact ASB has got much worse which proves the point.

Adults are responsible for their own behavior, I am not responsible for the behavior of my children who are 30 and 33 why should I be responsible for the behavior of other peoples children? To be clear I am very proud of the behavior of my children but I take neither credit nor blame.

I am a landlord who provides nice homes to my tenants, not a baby sitter, parent,  social worker, policewoman, friend,  bank, credit union, immigration officer, benefit fraud investigator..... I chose not to go into those professions because I haven't the personal skills nor am I trained for this important work.  I have spent 42 years learning all there is to know about being a good landlord adn I pay my taxes to help to support those other services that help our communities.  I have also chosen to support LRS because I need to keep my business safe in order that I can continue to offer good tenants nice homes.

If this company is trying to attract landlords as customers they probably need to begin by understanding the business of a landlord and the realities of some tenants rather than blaming landlord for lack of communication skills!!!!!!!!!!

 

Mary Latham – follow me on Twitter @landlordtweets

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11/01/2014
6:11 pm
PaulBarrett
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Unfortunately for councils they are still labouring under the delusion that PRS LL need HB tenants.

This used to be the case and councils held the whip hand.

Well just in case councils don't realise; the market has substantially changed!!!

PRS LL don't NEED HB tenants anymore.

There are more than enough other suitable tenants who are not reliant on HB.

Councils do not do anything to assist themselves with their negative attitude towards PRS LL.

PRS LL should be part of the housing solution .

Councils must surely realise that they will not be serviced with a large council house supply.

ONLY the PRS will be able to; if it so wishes, to supply councils with appropriate rental accommodation.

As evidenced by the council attitudes; these clearly indicate that councils are still wedded to the political philosophy that PRS LL are a necessary evil; but that councils will do nothing to make life easier for them.

They clearly would prefer that there was sufficient amount of social housing to house all their wronguns.

They hate the idea that they have to pay money to PRS LL and will do everything they can to make sure they don't make any profits.

This is bizarre as councils are having to spend inordinate amounts of council tax money on very expensive TA.

If only councils worked with the LL rather than believing everything their wrongun tenants state then LL would be more predisposed toward the tenants that councils put forward.

PRS LL will only allow their properties to be used for HB tenants if councils changed their attitude.

One fundamental change which could encourage LL to take HB tenants is for the council to advise that for those tenants that refuse to pay their rent that they should vacate the rental property once they have received a S21 or S8.

It should be made known to tenants that if they vacate as a consequence of serving of a correct notice that they will NOT be deemed to have made themselves intentionally homeless.

Compliance  with legal notices should not be used by a council as an excuse to not assist a tenant who is required to vacate by the LL.

HB tenants substantially abuse the eviction system at great cost to PRS LL.

It is primarily this reason that causes PRS LL to withdraw from offering their properties to HB tenants.

Until councils address this issue they will find that available supply of PRS rental accommodation for HB tenants continually dwindles.

Ultimately councils will have far larger costs for addressing their housing issues; which are so unnecessary when if they only engaged with PRS LL in an appropriate way, they could save themselves fortunes.

Political dogma is still a major driver of council negative attitudes against PRS LL.

They need to put aside the political dogma and consider the financial realities.

The PRS can assist councils in reducing their housing costs.

Surely an efficiently run and effective AST is far more beneficial to all parties than TA.

If councils won't play ball properly PRS LL will not play the the game and continue to desert the HB market at great detriment to the council's housing finances and to their tenants.

Councils need to up their game and change their arrogant attitude towards PRS LL.

 

 

 

 

 

11/01/2014
6:38 pm
Silverfox4
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Licencing is a nightmare scenario - I know from reading posts  on RLA  Walthamstow is going ahead with this, and (personally) I have been contacted by Barking and Dagenham with a questionnaire about licencing.

Not only do they propose a £500 fee, it appears they will hold landlords responsible for tenants bad behaviour. - so , if tenant is caught dumping old mattresses on the north circular instead of taking to the dump, the landlord is responsible??  And also the landlord is responsible for tenants anti-social behaviour - so I am expected to watch them 24/7 and intervene if they mis behave????

It appears there was a "consultation" meeting with Walthamstow landlords which , according to reports was no such thing, but a faintly disguised directive as to what will happen "whether you like it or not".

I urge all landlords to attend any meetings within their area and make it quite clear that licencing is not a further option to the council purely to gain fees.  Any extra costs will surely be absorbed in an increase in rent, which further exacerbates the current situation of unaffordable rentals.

I could go on.

Sorry, I have to get the night vision goggles out and go check my tenants are not dumping rubbish on the North Circular. Yell

11/01/2014
8:09 pm
Paul Routledge
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The more I hear about this and the more people interact with comments the absurd it all becomes. Has anyone got a detailed breakdown what the money will be spent on to better the housing stock?

We heard about it coming in by letter 10 days after the deadline,

 

Fact:   As LRS grows taking one another’s bad tenants will become a thing of the past and the sooner you Join LRS  the sooner that day will come.  

 

I do not take bad tenants to court so Join LRS today free and don’t take my bad tenants anymore.

 

Paul Routledge CEO
Tenant Referencing UK.Com
12/01/2014
4:58 pm
zipster31
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PaulBarrett said
Unfortunately for councils they are still labouring under the delusion that PRS LL need HB tenants.
This used to be the case and councils held the whip hand.
Well just in case councils don't realise; the market has substantially changed!!!
PRS LL don't NEED HB tenants anymore.

 
 
 
 

Landlords DO have the power to do something about it. Just stop accepting Housing Benefit tenants. Evict the ones in residence, clean up the properties and let to non HB tenants. Many of the properties in our proposed selective licensing areas are very well built Victorian houses - some are quite large, grand buildings. They used to be quite well to do areas, but have been reduced to rundown ramshackle wrecks because of the market rate, easy to obtain HB income. Filled with the WRONG tenants. It really is a crying shame. Beautiful buildings and areas that were once the pride of the town. If I had the finance, I would love to buy several of these buildings (which are now quite cheap), evict the wrong un tenants, restore them to their former glory (mostly cosmetics as they are well built), let them to referenced, decent hard-working tenants, massively increase ones profits and transform the area to it's former glory. That would really put a smile on the locals faces.

12/01/2014
6:09 pm
PaulBarrett
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I know the areas you mean and the properties.

Certain parts of Southend really are the pits; populated with low- life HB tenants.

Hopefully the HB rates will reduce further so that the HB tenants can't afford these places anymore.

I wonder come April how many HB tenants will be able to remain as most of them will have been reliant on DHP which only lasts a year.

If I was a HB LL I would wish to know whether the tenant was relying on DHP to pay the full rent.

April the LL will suddenly find the rent payment made to them reduces by the amount of DHP previously paid.

Time to get those authority to discuss letter sorted out so the LL can ascertain how the tenant is affording the rent.

I say get rid of them all to Shoeburyness.

I have spoken to quite a few Southend LA and NONE of them are accepting HB tenants anymore.

So you may get your wish as these tenants have to be in full time work as part of the LA criteria.

Hopefully this will mean the HB tenants are pushed out of Southend to grottier areas.

There are lots of professionals leaving London and moving down to the sea air of Southend.

A lot of them are the proverbial 'white flight'; finally giving up on East London.

Southend has had some good press lately as a commuter town.

Hopefully as it seems to be the case a better class of tenant is moving to there.

This will push out HB tenants away from Southend to be replaced with better tenants.

Now if they would only blow up the Kursal council development Southend would be a lot better off!!!!!!

That place is Benefits Street; writ LARGE!!

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